In Episode 9, we're doing a deep dive into stories, lessons learned and processes of transitioning from an office-based company into a remote-first company. TL;DR - The success stories have a pattern. And that comes from leaders and decision-makers setting examples that propel remote culture, thus making the transition itself less painful for everyone.
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A big thank you to our post-production wizard, Vanesa Monroy.
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[00:00:00] Andres: [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Andres
[00:00:04] Josephine: [00:00:04] and I'm Josephine. Welcome to the Remoter Podcast.
[00:00:07] Andres: [00:00:07] Follow us in season one of this journey as we cover anything and everything you need to know in order to successfully build and scale a remote first team. Someone who's been working remotely for over a decade, our CEO, Alexander Torrenegra shares his personal experiences, lessons learned, and advice for those of you who are curious and interested in exploring the future of work.
[00:00:33] Josephine: [00:00:33] This podcast is brought to you by Torre, the end to end recruitment solution for remoters. Get our free AI powered sourcing and processing tools, or let Torre recruit on your behalf at Torre dot co, that's T O R R E dot C O.
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[00:00:51] Andres: [00:00:51] Going to be diving into the topic of transitioning from an office-based company into a remote first company.
[00:00:59] Josephine: [00:00:59] But does it [00:01:00] ever go the other way?
[00:01:01] Andres: [00:01:01] Yes. Yes it does. And you actually know about it because you read the script, but, um, but we'll talk about, you know, how Alex, went and tried the whole office, um, thing and went back to remote, so we'll hear about it on this, uh, on this episode.
[00:01:21] Erik: [00:01:21] So, Alex, you have some stories about transitioning from an office based company to remote first, right.
[00:01:26] Alex: [00:01:26] There are many, since I've been, uh, not only leading remote companies, that on its own time became office companies and went back to being remote companies, but I also help many entrepreneurs and friends, uh, either start from scratch as remote or eventually transition over to, and, uh, yeah, I've seen, I've seen a lot.
[00:01:46] Erik: [00:01:46] How did it work for you? I mean, how do you make it happen?
[00:01:48] Alex: [00:01:48] As with everything? The answer is it depends. I mean, I've seen, I've seen cases where it was relatively quick. I've seen cases where it took a significant amount of time and it worked, when it took a significant [00:02:00] amount of time and it failed, and either other instances when it took a very short amount of time for it to fail. I have a really good friend here in San Francisco. He's seen me managing remote teams for for a while now. And, uh, as he was starting his new business, we had several mentoring sessions where I taught him the most important things I knew about remote work and how to build that team. And, and even helped him identify some members for his team, uh, or remote workers.
[00:02:29] Fast forward. He, he, he joined an accelerator and, um, three months later, uh, he was quite busy those days because being on the accelerator, we meet again and we meet in his office. Like, he like, let's have coffee. Yeah. Why don't we meet in our office? And I got, what do you mean? Weren't you supposed to go remote? You have an office? So I went to his office. And he had just opened the office like three days ago. He rented, he rented a house next to the ocean here in San Francisco. He tried and very quickly realized [00:03:00] that he wanted to, once again, to have an office space instead of a remote team.
[00:03:05] Erik: [00:03:05] And that was just his personality, it just worked for him.
[00:03:08] Alex: [00:03:08] I think we should interview him for this podcast because I haven't had the chance of asking him in detail about the reasons for, for that. But I do think that it's a, it's a combination of, of his personality, uh, the way that he's used to leading teams and potentially some of the co founders that eventually joined the team as well.
[00:03:28] I've seen other companies do it successfully, and in fact, one of them is Voice123. One of the companies I co founded that, after a decade of being remote, went to being office-based and then it went back to being, to being remote. It did many things well, and I can contrast that with another company that I'm close with as well.
[00:03:50] That started a transition from being office-based to being remote at at the same time, and both of those companies, the first thing they did is [00:04:00] they decided to say, we're oh, we are going to be remote-friendly as we are going to be transitioning, over to being uh remote. And that happened pretty much at the same time and they started having a remote team members, but the transition was happening slowly and like a year later, they decided, we are going to shut down our offices spaces.
[00:04:20] And now you have to work from home, but we are going to transition like we are not going to push you out, we are going to ask you to start working from home or out of a coworking space, but by your own, and we're going to keep the office while, while needed. Well, one company ended up completing the transition in less than six months.
[00:04:39] The other company has been at it for a year and half and hasn't completed the transition. Voice123 is the one that did it pretty well. And they did 3 things, I believe that were key for the transition to happen quickly. One is both the CEO and the head of HR- when remote, I've seen that being key for every mode [00:05:00] transition because that's going to trigger a lot of empathy on their behalf for the other members of the team that are remote and it becomes really easy for them to start thinking remote-first.
[00:05:10] When you're the CEO and you feel excluded, things aren't going to change. When you are a lower level employee and you're excluded, things might change, but not that quickly. And when you're the head of HR, which is the one deciding how you hire, how would you say that many of the processes are related to people in the company and you're doing it remotely also is going to become remote-first very, very quickly.
[00:05:33] Erik: [00:05:33] So to have the right leadership, you have to experience it directly.
[00:05:36] Alex: [00:05:36] Indeed. While the other company, at least the CEO continued being office-based primarily. Um, so it was difficult for her to prioritize. Uh, the other thing that had happened, and I didn't suggest this, I learned this just afterwards, is that they actively opted not to continue hiring people in the same city, where did they had most of the members of [00:06:00] the team.
[00:06:00] Erik: [00:06:00] Oh, okay.
[00:06:01] Andres: [00:06:01] So they made an effort to try and look for people outside that city.
[00:06:04] Alex: [00:06:04] Yes. So the same way that there are many companies that try to proactively attract more of female software engineers to to compensate the ratio that they have. What they didn't hear is, well, we are going to go out and try to attract more people from outside the city where most of the team members are located. So that be default, they have to remote. They cannot really go to the office environment as we have. That ended up helping a lot. Now they have multiplied by three, the numbers of countries, where they have team members, while the other company continues hiring people primarily in the same city where most of the members of the team are, and by the way, that's usually what happens because a lot of hiring happens through referrals. And it's easier to refer people that happen to be your friends, that happen to be...
[00:06:50] Andres: [00:06:50] People you grew up with...
[00:06:52] Alex: [00:06:52] Around you, so you have to compensate for that on purpose if you want to really engage or having a remote company. Now in [00:07:00] Torre, that's not the case. Actually, most of the members of our team are based out of one city- Bogotá- but they work remotely and we started remotely from the scratch, so they didn't have that bias of being office-based, so we didn't have to transition.
[00:07:11] Andres: [00:07:11] There is, there is some network effects to kick-starting the remote kind of structure. Let's think about founding teams and startups. If you're founding team, uh, it starts being remote and you have engineers and marketing, PR people and designers all over the world, world just because of network effects and referrals, which is the main source for talent, nowadays you're gonna kick-start a network of talent that is going to, just because of referrals, are going to help you go global faster. So if your founding team is remote and it's global, or as global as possible, uh, as you grow your, it's going to be way easier for you to find talent around the world, uh, around the world.
[00:07:53] Alex: [00:07:53] Correct.
[00:07:54] Erik: [00:07:54] So, so it goes both ways. You have people you know and all that, but also diversity. They both can be enhanced [00:08:00] simultaneously and then they're not necessarily conflict with each other.
[00:08:02] Alex: [00:08:02] Alright.
[00:08:03] Andres: [00:08:03] Everything in culture like, comes down from, from the top. So if you as a CEO, you're not remote and you're working out of an office and you try to have as many people in that office with you, it's going to be pretty hard for your company to be a remote company.
[00:08:14] Alex: [00:08:14] As the CEO of a company, you have to lead by example. People are going to do, to a large degree, what what you do. I think that Cisco is a company that has tried to engage a videoconferencing. I don't know whether they engage in remote work as much or not, but videoconferencing indeed, is one of them. And thousands of people company and in the town hall, the CEO, he wanted to promote the use of webcams so that if you're meeting and you, if you're joining a video conference, hopefully it's not only audio, it's video and Cisco sells video equipment, I believe by minutes.
[00:08:48] So it's on their own interest to do it. So, the CEO, he decided to join wearing a cap during the meetings wearing a cap and a t-shirt as a way of showing the team, you don't have to [00:09:00] be like fully dressed to join the video conference. It's okay to just put a cap on your head because that potentially means that you have, your hair is not that well that day.
[00:09:09] So it's fine. Like, like do it. And I know that had, uh, that had a significant effect in the, in how people felt comfortable, you know. It's okay if I'm not that well-dressed and the presentations, people enabling cameras for video meetings ended up increasing significantly.
[00:09:25] Erik: [00:09:25] So a big part of of developing this, it encouraging diversity and so on, is really encouraging people to just be themselves, I guess, when they're being remote.
[00:09:34] Alex: [00:09:34] Yeah, yeah. Be be, be yourself. Be who you really are. And I think that many people many people like that.
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[00:09:47] Josephine: [00:09:47] So for listeners out there, um, when we do our video conferencing, I, I'm pretty much, most of the time I'm in my pajamas. I'm in my [00:10:00] bedroom or somewhere around the house. I'm not the most, uh, as like Alex was saying, like I, I am personally one of those people who don't look professional or anything when I'm doing these calls.
[00:10:12] But I'm very thankful that I can wear whatever I want, and I mean, I don't look like garbage, but I can wear whatever I want when I am, I'm doing these calls with my teammates because they all understand we're working remotely. We don't have to look 10 out of 10.
[00:10:29] Andres: [00:10:29] I think it's a cultural thing. Even in the way in, even in the phrase that you just said, you said, I don't look professional. What is professional, you know? Because you can be a professional and wear a shirt everyday, like I do. And you can be unprofessional and be wearing a suit. So it's a, it's, I think it's a cultural thing. And you can all see that in companies. So in startups and in, in remote companies, usually it's not necessarily a causation. It's actually [00:11:00] or, or a correlation. Um. Well, let me take that back. Actually, it might be a correlation, uh, in remote companies and startups, usually you find people who are innovators, who are the forefront of their industries. So you will find young people perhaps, or people that are very open-minded and they are looking to innovate. Usually these types of individuals, they have a mindset that is different from the, from the more conservative or old school kind of way companies. So you'll, you'll see how when you work remote, you are more free to be your, yourself. Um, not because being remote helps you be yourself, but because remote companies are usually the ones that have already this mindset, I don't know if that makes sense.
[00:11:42] Josephine: [00:11:42] I think, no, no, it does make sense. I think the whole, um, as you said, it's cultural. It's a perception. Right? Like when I was at my previous job, everybody, a lot of people said, dress for the role you want and all that.
[00:11:55] Andres: [00:11:55] Not the role you have?
[00:11:56] Josephine: [00:11:56] Not the role you have. Yeah. So, um, a lot of people [00:12:00] did, and this is, it's not just for my last job, but for my previous jobs in general, a lot of people were more, um, like they wore suits, they wore ties to work and whatnot. And, uh, even if they weren't, you know, the top CEO or whatever, they were dressing for success and all that kind of stuff. But I never, I never kind of followed that. I just dressed how I wanted to dress. I wanted to be comfortable. And I didn't necessarily wear high heels everyday, but I was still, you know, getting my job, getting my work done, getting my job done.
[00:12:36] So I, I think that's why my mindset is more towards the whole remote, um, work culture and how it's easier for you to be yourself in settings like that than it is with larger companies or office-based places.
[00:12:52] Andres: [00:12:52] You know, it actually happened to Vanesa. Um, the girl that's editing this podcast as we listen. Um, she used to have a [00:13:00] very, like a job that was, I think, very Catholic organization or something?
[00:13:05] Josephine: [00:13:05] More conservative.
[00:13:06] Andres: [00:13:06] Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think I've heard some, some of it from, from her, and I'm like, she's a girl that's like super alternative and has a lot of tattoos and stuff like that. And they were not well seen. You know? I just think that's absurd.
[00:13:19] Josephine: [00:13:19] Yeah. How you look doesn't mean, it doesn't say anything about your qualifications and all that, and some people just, they're not there yet.
[00:13:26] Andres: [00:13:26] Have you seen the, have you seen the movie, the Facebook movie? What's the name of the movie?
[00:13:30] Josephine: [00:13:30] Social...
[00:13:31] Andres: [00:13:31] The social network. There's a quote from that movie, I think it was Sean Parker, says in that movie, usually the man in the suit works for the man in the pajama.
[00:13:42] Josephine: [00:13:42] Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's ringing true, at least with the way society is going and everything. It is ringing true now.
[00:13:51] Andres: [00:13:51] It might not be true for everyone. You have a mix of cultures and a mix of lines of thought. But yeah, at least for us, remote [00:14:00] companies, uh, there might be a correlation between the culture and the way of thinking and the fact that you are, you know, uh, an an innovator, um, you have a global mindset.
[00:14:09] You welcome, um, change and you welcome differences and cultural differences. Um, it being a remote company, you have to do it because you need to be mindful of the culture and the ways of doing things of people, you know, in India or in China or in Japan or in Egypt or wherever they are. And, um, you need to be respectful of them as well so that you can have a safe environment for work. That's a very interesting aspect of going remote.
[00:14:40] Thank you so much for tuning in. A few last words, if you enjoyed that episode, please...
[00:14:45] Josephine: [00:14:45] Follow us on social media at Remoter Project and let us know what you think about the latest episode.
[00:14:51] Andres: [00:14:51] We'd love for you to join us as we continue building the remoter library on our website. Remoter dot com. That's R E M O T E R dot com.
[00:15:00] [00:15:00] Josephine: [00:15:00] If you want even more resources, sign up for our free Founding and Growing Remotely online course. You can find that on our website or check the description for links. Don't forget to follow and subscribe to us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, wherever you listen to your podcasts.
[00:15:16] Andres: [00:15:16] And by the way, we've got some exciting news. We're gearing up for season two. This time, we're going to go further into interviewing remote work leaders all around the world, and we'd like to ask you, what are some questions or topics you'd like to hear covered next time? Who would you like to hear on the show and let us know through Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, email, um, you know, carrier pigeon, whatever it is you like. We're all ears.
[00:15:40] Josephine: [00:15:40] And remember, we're here to make work fulfilling. So what part will you play in shaping the future of work?
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